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Recoil
07-30-2009, 03:29 PM
Scenario

barb vs conju+zarkit

UM
beetle swarm 5 9s (zarkit attackinig)
2 hits, zarkit dies
arcana miss 5 400 hp
(conju far away)
going for conju
mind push 5 -70% speed 8s
conju runs further away
arcana mis 5
steel skin
conju close
deaf roar 5 on conju (stun 15 s)
rest 12 s
howl 5 dizzy 15s
(some damage ~1000)
dizzy wears off
UM wears off
ivy 5 arcane miss 5 will dom 5 etc etc
gg mf

Imbalance:

9 of 10 Impossible to get close to conju

Solution proposal:

Nerf beetle swarm duration and nerf mind push or nerf something ... give a chance.

In before patronizing about MS... it's actual success rate is like 10%.

dani-o
07-30-2009, 03:37 PM
u have only 1 chance, Mind squash.

i fought yesterday me a 2 full support conjurers, that kept me full of life and mana, against 1 conju, and i couldnt kill him, once that madness weres off, u only can get close to the mage using spring and onslaught, but you are so easily stopped that it is almost impossible.
the conjurer did all the way from meni bridge (alsius side) to menira without using sanct.

i think that the problem is mostly in duration/cooldown of barb buffs, u got to fight half of the confrontation with no buffs.

Recoil
07-30-2009, 03:49 PM
i think that the problem is mostly in duration/cooldown of barb buffs

Mana costs also suck, seeing how we dont have any means to restore it.. :/

Umaril
07-30-2009, 04:03 PM
Best way to beat a warju is charging buffed with UM + other stuff, and hope MS lands, if so you will kill them in 2/3 hits, if it fails, stall for time, (20sec isnt to long) and try again, if you dont have MS and they have SS then either run or hope to catch them unbuffed. You dont Mention SM but Mental warjus are just as good, (excluding uber items Sm players) and imo less frustrating to lose against, a SM conju can still often have mental on 11/15 though.

And I think that you wont be hitting 1k at that one point since Assumedly the conju still has SS on at that point,

As has been said befre a fully buffed warju is like a Tank (ie modern tank with heavy armour and a minigun poking out the turret)

I have no problem with Mental, or Sm, or Conju defence (barrier/SS/karma etc) But I do have a problem with the class with the (debatable) 2nd best defence (after knights) having such high dps from SM and having access to the best CC book in the game. Its to much in one class.

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:06 PM
Lumi Mental is mages only weapon against melee classes. If you nerf mental then mages will be no more. Mental is pretty balanced. And you run to a full mental conju :)

Melee classes can kill mage pretty easy in most cases.

Recoil
07-30-2009, 04:09 PM
Best way to beat a warju is charging buffed with UM + other stuff, and hope MS lands, if so you will kill them in 2/3 hits, if it fails, stall for time, (20sec isnt to long) and try again, if you dont have MS and they have SS then either run or hope to catch them unbuffed. You dont Mention SM but Mental warjus are just as good, (excluding uber items Sm players) and imo less frustrating to lose against, a SM conju can still often have mental on 11/15 though.

And I think that you wont be hitting 1k at that one point since Assumedly the conju still has SS on at that point,

As has been said befre a fully buffed warju is like a Tank (ie modern tank with heavy armour and a minigun poking out the turret)

I have had no problems killing warju in SM setup but when they have 19 mental it gets frustrating... essentially you must withstand around 15 seconds of *pointless* *humiliating* beating just before you have an _ability_ to even DO ANYTHING.

Sorry for caps and stuff, I just had half an hour of pvp with a warju and it just got to me really bad..

ethil
07-30-2009, 04:10 PM
Lumi Mental is mages only weapon against melee classes. If you nerf mental then mages will be no more. Mental is pretty balanced. And you run to a full mental conju :)

Melee classes can kill mage pretty easy in most cases.

Finally someone with a bit of brain

@lumi: LEARN to play

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:14 PM
You're happy he did not have Static Field - it is not affected by Mind Squasher. We have to have some sort of defense - sure sorcery gives us tanking abilities, but successful squasher ends all. Beetle is one of spell that goes through UM if i know right. All other like picking ivy, will domain, arcane missle miss that.

Full Mental warju is pretty nasty guy.

Recoil
07-30-2009, 04:17 PM
Beetle is one of spell that goes through UM if i know right.

Mind push?

Finally someone with a bit of brain

@lumi: LEARN to play

Real helpful.

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:22 PM
Ok that makes 2 spells :) Really you run to full offensive mage. In real conju or lock have mental max to level 4. Mind push cool down have been risen to 15 sec so it is not so spammable like before. Beetle ok 8 sec but big cooldown, will domain too. Only arcane missle can be spammed but it is used for grind and do not do so big damage.

Energy Borrow - nerfed, Sanctuary - nerfed. If mental goes up mages really will be unusable.

Common mage have life around 3k so 3 normals and he is dead. Steel Skin sure makes things harder.

If he use Time Master it really becomes annoying...

Recoil
07-30-2009, 04:28 PM
Common mage have life around 3k

+ Energy barrier 1000
+ ability to heal self
+ ability to Recast Energy Barrier AKA heal self +1000

I still think conju is too strong.

Ok that makes 2 spells

These 2 spells... all they really need. 8s + 9s = 17s of doing what ever they please

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:32 PM
All this do not matter when you get in close combat with mage. He is dead 90% of times. I have 2 mages and when barb comes close to me I'm most of cases dead. Mental is a way to keep distance. We have some defense against melee classes, but we suck alot against ranged so it is balanced.

Barrier is 1 hit and down, Heal Self is 600 so not usable against high damage class as Marksman and Barb are.

Our armour is worst from all classes. You run into Full Offensive mage.

Dannboy
07-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Melee classes can kill mage pretty easy in most cases.

/me can kill a Marks, with the right set up
/me can kill a Knight, with the right set up
/me can kill a Barb, with the right set up
/me can kill a Hunter, if lucky and with the right set up.
/me can kill a Lock, if he sucks ass and my Random blocking saves my life.
/me cannot kill a Conju, give the guy Mana Burn, a zarkit and Steel Skin, and I am dead.

I have never single-handed killed a conju, I have killed every other class, some off them with a bit of luck, yes.
A conju heals faster than I attack, my buffs + his mana burn = No mana for me.
And a Knight without Mana is really not a challenge to kill.

I know people is talking about barbs, but this is about nerfing Conjus. I dont say that they need to be nerfed even further, just saying that they are not dead 90% of the times

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:47 PM
You're correct, but in that spirit every usable mage spell have to be nerfed because mages are supposed to be killed easy? Mages have to stay alive enough to be helpful in battles right?

Please we get alot of hits, and this makes less and less conjus play this class. We must really have a way to keep that weapons away from us.

* OFFTOPIC *

In fact once i played with a knight 1v1 with static field + mana borrow(mana burn) + some other mental. After 6 minutes of trying to kill me he gived up and left me to go my way. All that spells are not conjurer but common to all mages.

* OFFTOPIC *

Dannboy
07-30-2009, 04:51 PM
You're correct, but in that spirit every usable mage spell have to be nerfed because they are supposed to be killed easy?

Please we get alot of hits, and this makes less and less conjus play this class. We must really have a way to keep that weapons away from us.

* OFFTOPIC *

In fact once i played with a knight 1v1 with static field + mana borrow(mana burn) + some other mental. After 6 minutes of trying to kill me he gived up and left me to go my way. All that spells are not conjurer but common to all mages.

* OFFTOPIC *

How long ago was this? Since the Magic reists buff is broken, and NGD nerfed blocks with about 60%, I dont think it would be the same anymore.
A Conju can do a good 300 damage on me with Sm, and thats just sick.

Check my post, I dont want to get conjus nerfed any further, I wanted to say that a Conju will Not die 90% off the times like you said.

ieti
07-30-2009, 04:55 PM
Sorry about offtopic again...

Was in beginning of summer or spring maybe. I was in full support build - so no offensive stuff from me. Knight was around level 40-45 maybe.

You're right DannBoy. Sorry maybe 90% was too high.

Recoil
07-30-2009, 04:57 PM
In my humble opinion, conjurer's role in fort war must be Healing and Buffing and Resurecting and Giving Mana.

If you want to blow shit up (like conjus do right now) - play lock.

ethil
07-30-2009, 05:22 PM
In my humble opinion, conjurer's role in fort war must be Healing and Buffing and Resurecting and Giving Mana.

If you want to blow shit up (like conjus do right now) - play lock.

+1, I hate every warju :D

dani-o
07-30-2009, 06:04 PM
In my humble opinion, conjurer's role in fort war must be Healing and Buffing and Resurecting and Giving Mana.

If you want to blow shit up (like conjus do right now) - play lock.

i agree with that too, but it seems like NGD does not, since they have nerfed several support skills in mages, but they have not nerfed the umbalanced attack configs on mages.

_Arwen_
07-30-2009, 06:06 PM
I think I'll jump into this conversation for a quick word. I completely agree that Warjurs are completely overpowered, but you have to be careful when fixing this issue as a nerf to the mental tree also screws over other types of mages as well. Support Conjurers have a hard enough time staying alive as it is now, when I'm conjuring, mind push and will domain are my friend (both on level 1) that give me the extra time needed to get away, or shout for help. On lock, its the same deal, I'm a heavy mental tree user (Level 19) and use ivy, beetle, mind push and will domain to save myself as well as allies. My only chance against a rushing warrior is to keep him at a distance. If he gets in attack range, I'm kicked then feinted, combined these two skills provide enough time to get the 3 attacks off needed to kill me without me being able to react. Normals are generally 1.1k some as high as 1.5k not to mention skills and criticals.

In short, the mental tree is not what needs nerfing, its been said time and time again... nerf SM! Something as simple as -50% cast speed while SM buffs are active would be enough, that would be a total of -100% (Assuming devotion is used) cast speed and then beetle swarm would take 4 seconds to cast, along with energy barrier and steel skin taking much longer to cast. This provides enough time for you to reach the SM Conjurer.

Zas_
07-30-2009, 06:41 PM
Oh no :'
.... another X overpowered thread....

For sure, bugs are overpowered in 1.0.7... ;)

Umaril
07-30-2009, 06:53 PM
In my humble opinion, conjurer's role in fort war must be Healing and Buffing and Resurecting and Giving Mana.

If you want to blow shit up (like conjus do right now) - play lock.

I agree but the issue is,

Support based leveling is very slow
Support based leveling is sometimes hard to even start (lack of players near your level)

So, conjus need some sort of offence to level with, be it SM or Mental (+Summon) problem is if this offence is to weak then its to hard to level (although NGD want mages to be the hardest class's to level/play) is its to strong then combined with conju defence its Op in a player on player situation.

And since with the changes to mana borrow etc it seems NGD are going with "make mages slower" rather than "make warriors/archers faster" (the easy but ultimatly bad way to do it imo) if conjus can only level via support then we are likely to see far less people sticking with the class into the upper levels. Which is a bad thing :)

lala110593
07-30-2009, 07:13 PM
i love when ppl say "mages only have 2/3 spells agains UM", how many spells do barbs have against sm/ss ONE (MS), which is a chance spell, if that fails, your as good as dead... sounds really fair doesnt it?
-glulose

Signatus
07-30-2009, 07:22 PM
My 2 cents on the issue, after you have UM you already know that he'll have to use Mind Push, however Mind Push area and duration is lower then Deafening Roar and Howl and Spiritual Blow... anyway, a well played conjurer set for PvP is very difficult to beat for all classes. If on the arena it's even more hard.

In my humble opinion, conjurer's role in fort war must be Healing and Buffing and Resurecting and Giving Mana.

If you want to blow shit up (like conjus do right now) - play lock.

I think locks will always "blow shit up" better then conjurers. They have dmging areas and they are very useful in big fights.

In my humble opinion there isn't a "role" to be fulfilled by any class, and that's a very good aspect of this game. You can have different builds that on other games would force you to grind 2 different classes and choose between 4 specialities.

However a good support conjurer is the overpowered class of the game, not because he "blows shit up", but with him around all other classes cream everyone (sadly they nerfed bless weapon, something very stupid to do for the enchantments tree). Still, allowing those same conjurers to play different roles beyond exclusive support is very good to the game, it adds diversity on fort wars (and replaying potential for players), and diversity beats monotonic group tactics by far (problem arises when the "support conjus quota" is not fulfilled, but that's another discussion).

Since I can remember conjus on PvP own (and if they don't, either they screwed up or the adversary knew them all too well), and nobody should complain about it, those that rule at the arena are the same that save your ass in wars. Because if they try to rule the arena and wars on the same setup, it's the whole group that ends up dead (unless the "support conjus quota" is already fulfilled, in that case they are a awesome force to be reckoned with, yet still very limited given their single target dmging abilities).

dani-o
07-30-2009, 09:07 PM
Since I can remember conjus on PvP own (and if they don't, either they screwed up or the adversary knew them all too well), and nobody should complain about it, those that rule at the arena are the same that save your ass in wars. Because if they try to rule the arena and wars on the same setup, it's the whole group that ends up dead (unless the "support conjus quota" is already fulfilled, in that case they are a awesome force to be reckoned with, yet still very limited given their single target dmging abilities).

so pretty much yu are saying that we shouldnt complaint about conjurers owning in PvP because they are awesome in war too? (after they rebuild) or i got it wrong?

Zordak
07-30-2009, 09:26 PM
Conjurers tank quite good - and they should. Playing in support mode requires a reasonable amount of protective skills.
The problem arent the offensive skills themselves either. Its just the fact that you can have basically all this together in one build without making harsh sacrifices.

Have you tried knocking that conjurer of your example? Dizzy...well, I dont quite understand how you get killed since the damage balance of your example will only work out if you deal with an SM mage. But dizzying that one? - not particulary effective.
Last time i had a barb close to me i was dead in two hits - in spite of my lvl5 barrier and without even being able to think of recasting it.

Considering the balance vs. knights...its tough. Currently a single knight will not be able to kill a support conjurer alone. On the other hand the support conjurer wont be able to kill that knight either.
I think the warjurer balance issues in this combination again lead to the problem, that they need to make too few sacrifices.

Z.

Signatus
07-30-2009, 09:38 PM
so pretty much yu are saying that we shouldnt complaint about conjurers owning in PvP because they are awesome in war too? (after they rebuild) or i got it wrong?

No you didn't got it wrong, it's exactly that! Sounds weird to say? Not really in my perspective of things. I can go even further, there are classes that should be fking OP on PvP, just to stand a chance on RvR.

Given the thread title I was pointing out that OP situation given by 1v1 encounters are very biased when RvR is taken in consideration. Therefore, I just wanted to express that conjus are indeed very hard to beat in PvP but complaining about it is limiting the game potential for them, and for the war group.

It's the exact equivalent as banging knights for their blocks on PvP situations prior to 1.06, when those same block allowed them to rush more efficiently on RvR encounters. Since I don't want to endure "yet another" nerfs wave by such wise threads like this I expressed my opinion.

We don't need "this class is OP" threads, we need "what's the best setup to beat x class in PvP" and "what's the best setup for *specific" role on war bands when *specific* classes are present" threads.

The vision of individual gameplay fuelling this sort of threads is what annoys me most, since I always regarded RO as a team game.

Recoil
07-31-2009, 12:01 AM
In my humble opinion there isn't a "role" to be fulfilled by any class, and that's a very good aspect of this game.

If there isn't a role for each char, why can't I get healing skills tree, also ao1, low pro, sultar and pet?

Oh damn...

Looks like I should of played conjurer!?

(Probable NGD Mindset: )

1. Unique skills of Healing Self and Ally
2. Ao1? Fine there you go conjurers Steel Skin
3. Oh you want a god mode like archer LP? Fine there you go, sanctuary.
4. Sultar? Fine. Time Master 5, enjoy your life dear conjurers.
5. You want a pet? OK. Not just a pet, Unique RANGED PET, with the most kickass damage in game. Enjoy.

Correct me if I'm wrong but something is big time wrong here.

ArchmagusArcana
07-31-2009, 12:23 AM
You are wrong.

Hunters can heal their pets, warlocks can steal life and heal themselves.

Sanctuary is not god mode, not by a long shot. Very low duration now, very easy to cancel (with longer casting time). NO speed buffs, and it strips you of all your buffs, so unless he is near a fort, he is dead when its over with.

SS is not even close to AoO, it has no effect on elemental damage at all.

Time master does no damage, nor does it allow you to damage the targets while it is in effect, its only real use is to buy time for your ALLIES to make a play or get in range to make a play.

I can easily kill or steal a zarkit, it takes maybe two hits from my barb.

Mental is NOT the problem, its the only thing that allows a mage to have any chance of surviving an encounter with a melee character. SM, is OP, thats fact, more dps than either barb or marks, and minimal mana to do it. Mental is vital to any mage, just as warcries is vital to any barb, or shields to a knight, etc etc etc.

Signatus
07-31-2009, 01:05 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong but something is big time wrong here.

Well, my remark was intended to be read on a subclass specific case. As in, Conjurers are damn good healers (they do it better then any other class... well, they are the only ones doing it xD), but they can do other things besides that. The war band benefits if they are on support mode, hence being rational on a RvR scenario to be a support conjurer. Now, if all conjurers are on full support, probably we loose efficiency on a RvR scenario (and this applies to all classes, we can say we need Heals, but if we have heals, and material wall, and high mental, and full enchantments, and a crazy SM+ zarkit, etc, the war band benefits from it).

And I suspect this can be applied to all sub-classes, diversity creates solutions.

That was my point. Being OP on PvP? Well, that's not very important to me, as long as balance decisions aim to restrict staking several "roles" in 1, as Z pointed out more elegantly.

Ryzen
07-31-2009, 02:52 AM
List of deabilitating spells Unstoppable Madness does not stop.

-Beetle Swarm
-Stunning fist
-Caltrops
-Hinder
-Mind Push
-Static Field
-Slow

BTW, reliance on any % chance spell in Regnum is discouraged as they will fail you.

Recoil
07-31-2009, 03:33 AM
Another solution, make MS 100% ?

Ryzen
07-31-2009, 04:15 AM
Another solution, make MS 100% ?

MS is already one of the most useful skills, making it 100% would be overpowered.

Arafails
07-31-2009, 05:12 AM
Unstoppable madness also does not stop Confuse (I'm slightly confused by this spell at all times because I don't seem to be able to cast damaging powers while under its effect either).

On topic, though, it occurs to me that Steel Skin is backwards, because it only really stops melee classes and hunters from killing them. Surely it should be the other way around - save damage from ranged enemies and rely on your team mates to keep those nasty barbarians away (or use your mental tree to keep them at arms' length). Of course just making it elemental damage would mean yet another class that hunters can pwnz the pants off....

ieti
07-31-2009, 07:32 AM
All that think conjurers are overpowered i suggest to play one in RvR.

In Full Support setup conjurer can tank but that is needed to stay alive enough to support his allies. In this case on both my lock and conju i use mental to keep melee classes to get close to me. Buffed barbs makes 1k+ damage on me so i need 2-3 hits to be killed. Playing mage in large battle is alot harder because they are primary targets and always on heavy fire. Making changes to Mental and Sorcery trees surely will make them unplayable in RvR aspect.

Regnum is not PvP based game and for me losing in PvP against some class is not a good measure how classes are OP. PvP is extreme example - making both opponents choose specific setups.

w_larsen
07-31-2009, 07:56 AM
4. Sultar? Fine. Time Master 5, enjoy your life dear conjurers.


do your homework, time master is mental spell, availible for all mages.

Inkster
07-31-2009, 08:06 AM
Another solution, make MS 100% ?


Ill have whatever your smoking

But sure, nerf conjouers, then there wont be any, whos gonna put a band-aid on your cut pinky in war after that

Zas_
07-31-2009, 09:17 AM
This week, we have threads about:
- conjurers OP
- hunters OP
- knights and their shield OP
- marksmans (archers) OP

So this week, warlocks and barbs are not OP, let's see next week....

My opinion is that classes balance isn't that bad.

From Syrtis against Ignis battles on Horus least night, i remember:
- "shoot me please" knights
- "1690 damage in one shot" barbs
- "sultar on CD" warlocks
- "heal/mana plz plz ....arrgggg" conjurers and "Uzi" conjurers
- "$!%£#!" hunters
- "1531 damage in one shot" marksmans (hint: Dim...)

And everybody had fun...

This was RvR, with almost all classes involved, at herb, pb, samal limit, samal a bit, meni a bit, pn, shaana arch, shaana bridge, shaana castle, shaana tower, ..... and it worked.

Recoil
07-31-2009, 01:50 PM
This thread is only about arena balance 1v1. In rvr its completely different.

linearguild
07-31-2009, 02:49 PM
So you don't see how your proposals for nerfing would gimp the conjus in RvR? Stop caring so much about winning an arena fight and look at the big picture in war.

Game balance must be tuned for RvR, not for PvP and surely not for the arena.

Zas_
07-31-2009, 02:55 PM
This thread is only about arena balance 1v1. In rvr its completely different.

I missed this point.
You should edit your initial post, to indicate it is about "barb vs conju+zarkit in arena".

And modify the thread title, which is "Conjurers overpowered".... while imho it should be more like "As a barb i have difficulties to win over a conjurer and zarkit in arena."....

:razz:

platyna
07-31-2009, 03:05 PM
You rather meant warjurers not conjurers.

Sorcery cannot be nerfed more, since it is the source of defence of support conjurers.

Regards.

Recoil
08-01-2009, 02:10 AM
Game balance must be tuned for RvR, not for PvP and surely not for the arena.

I understand this, but arena is very important aspect of the game (at least for me), and this is why I even bother to create such thread, and also "Arena improvements" thread in Suggestions...

Both RvR and arena should be balanced.

VandaMan
08-01-2009, 02:25 AM
Scenario

barb vs conju+zarkit

UM
beetle swarm 5 9s (zarkit attackinig)
2 hits, zarkit dies
arcana miss 5 400 hp
(conju far away)
going for conju
mind push 5 -70% speed 8s
conju runs further away
arcana mis 5
steel skin
conju close
deaf roar 5 on conju (stun 15 s)
rest 12 s
howl 5 dizzy 15s
(some damage ~1000)
dizzy wears off
UM wears off
ivy 5 arcane miss 5 will dom 5 etc etc
gg mf


Hahaha... let's try it again...

Realistic Scenario:
Barb vs 95% of the Conju's that play regnum

Barb casts madness
Barb runs at conj
Conj casts energy barrier
Conj prays an ally can help him
Barb is hit with multiple CC spells from conj's allies... but keeps running, due to madness
Barb breaks conj's energy barrier with 1 normal hit
Conj attempts to cast sanctuary
Barb kicks conj during sanctuary casting time
Barb is unaffected by more CC spells, due to madness
Conj (still laying on the ground) is killed by one south cross and one normal hit
Conj's allies kill barb half a second too late

The situation you described is a lvl 50 conjurer with max mental, max sorcery, and max summoning. Almost all conjurers who put in the work to get lvl 50 are nearly full support, and those that do choose to play offensively are more likely to use staff mastery than mental.

The fight you're talking about would only happen if you agreed to a 1 on 1 PvP with a conjurer, and they went to their trainer and reskilled specifically to fight against a melee class. It would never happen in RvR, and PvP balance is secondary in a RvR game.

dani-o
08-02-2009, 04:39 AM
Hahaha... let's try it again...

Realistic Scenario:
Barb vs 95% of the Conju's that play regnum

Barb casts madness
Barb runs at conj
Conj casts energy barrier
Conj prays an ally can help him
Barb is hit with multiple CC spells from conj's allies... but keeps running, due to madness
Barb breaks conj's energy barrier with 1 normal hit
Conj attempts to cast sanctuary
Barb kicks conj during sanctuary casting time
Barb is unaffected by more CC spells, due to madness
Conj (still laying on the ground) is killed by one south cross and one normal hit
Conj's allies kill barb half a second too late

The situation you described is a lvl 50 conjurer with max mental, max sorcery, and max summoning. Almost all conjurers who put in the work to get lvl 50 are nearly full support, and those that do choose to play offensively are more likely to use staff mastery than mental.

The fight you're talking about would only happen if you agreed to a 1 on 1 PvP with a conjurer, and they went to their trainer and reskilled specifically to fight against a melee class. It would never happen in RvR, and PvP balance is secondary in a RvR game.

lets see another real escenario...

Barb casts madness
Barb runs at conj
conju burns the barbs mana
conju press w
barb cant land a single hit
barb run out of buff
barb dies
conju keeps playing

VandaMan
08-02-2009, 05:27 AM
lets see another real escenario...

Barb casts madness
Barb runs at conj
conju burns the barbs mana
conju press w
barb cant land a single hit
barb run out of buff
barb dies
conju keeps playing

yeah... so that was a lvl 10,000 mana burn, I guess? :P

dani-o
08-02-2009, 06:29 AM
yeah... so that was a lvl 10,000 mana burn, I guess? :P

no with mana burning lvl 3 (all mages can have it with no sacrifices) si enough, if the barb casts madness (450) TfB(240) frenzi (125) and caution (180), basics buff for all barbs, you only got to burn +/- 50 of mana to prevent the casting of onslaught or burn a little bit more than 250 for prevent the casting of sprint.

VandaMan
08-02-2009, 06:01 PM
no with mana burning lvl 3 (all mages can have it with no sacrifices) si enough, if the barb casts madness (450) TfB(240) frenzi (125) and caution (180), basics buff for all barbs, you only got to burn +/- 50 of mana to prevent the casting of onslaught or burn a little bit more than 250 for prevent the casting of sprint.

lol, I wasn't saying it takes lvl 10,000 mana burn to get rid of a barb's mana, it was that there were no damaging spells in your example besides 1 mana burn... and so I don't understand how a single burn killed the barb.

dani-o
08-02-2009, 11:42 PM
lol, I wasn't saying it takes lvl 10,000 mana burn to get rid of a barb's mana, it was that there were no damaging spells in your example besides 1 mana burn... and so I don't understand how a single burn killed the barb.

a single mana burn do not kill a barb only disables him to reach the target, what is pretty much the same thing.

Ryzen
08-03-2009, 12:47 AM
In a usual war situation a barb has a small window to kill any target. Finding a target buffing then waiting for the right moment and then trying to get passed all the the targets allies. Even small things like manaburn can mess up a charge. Since this is a RvR game nothing should be balanced 1v1, which I believe is the main problem with NGD's balancing.

dani-o
08-03-2009, 01:37 AM
Since this is a RvR game nothing should be balanced 1v1, which I believe is the main problem with NGD's balancing.

i do not agre with that.
how can i choose between 2 subclass if on is more powerfull that the other?
i think that we have seen a lot of subclasses not balanced in 1 vs 1 (OP in 1 vs 1) those are the subclasses that we have seen the most.

Ryzen
08-03-2009, 02:12 AM
i do not agre with that.
how can i choose between 2 subclass if on is more powerfull that the other?
i think that we have seen a lot of subclasses not balanced in 1 vs 1 (OP in 1 vs 1) those are the subclasses that we have seen the most.

In some cases yes, but if all classes were made weak in certain areas and their opposites weak in the opposite area then everyone would have to work together. This is example is best shown by the warrior classes as they are now. Barbs deal massive amounts of damage, but being squish and knights being tanks, but comparably weak. However, the other four classes can do both. Hunters with their pets can match a marksman for damage while marks can still be extremely fast. Conjurers(probably the most overpowered class in 1v1) can have a lot more damage than their damage dealing counterpart. Yet, it seems they still balance for 1v1 instead of making everyone work together.

Mashu
08-09-2009, 10:18 AM
In some cases yes, but if all classes were made weak in certain areas and their opposites weak in the opposite area then everyone would have to work together. This is example is best shown by the warrior classes as they are now. Barbs deal massive amounts of damage, but being squish and knights being tanks, but comparably weak. However, the other four classes can do both. Hunters with their pets can match a marksman for damage while marks can still be extremely fast. Conjurers(probably the most overpowered class in 1v1) can have a lot more damage than their damage dealing counterpart. Yet, it seems they still balance for 1v1 instead of making everyone work together.


Finally someone said that!!! +1 for it

Eppitheblackguitar
08-30-2009, 07:22 AM
i think you might have mis-named this post

instead of "Conjurers overpowered"

you should have named it "Warjurers overpowered"

complete opposites imo

^^

Saryad
08-30-2009, 11:59 AM
Warjurors are fail incarnate >.<
Learn to play as part of a team and leave the damage to the classes that its meant for.
If you dont want to fulfill the most important support role why the hell didnt you choose another class?

mbyeah
08-30-2009, 12:21 PM
Summoner not Conjurer!^^

Beijing

Punti_X
08-30-2009, 12:27 PM
This is not PvP. This is RvR. Warjurers are not so danger in RvR. And not so popular. And not so supported.

Punti_X
08-30-2009, 12:30 PM
I understand this, but arena is very important aspect of the game (at least for me), and this is why I even bother to create such thread, and also "Arena improvements" thread in Suggestions...

Both RvR and arena should be balanced.

Is it a reason that Alsius is underpowered, cos u focus on arena instead war?

monktbd
08-31-2009, 04:43 PM
Is it a reason that Alsius is underpowered, cos u focus on arena instead war?

No.

10 chars....

ArchmagusArcana
08-31-2009, 09:18 PM
You know this thread is like a month old right?


Reading it again still made me LOL, just like the first time.....conju overpowered....what a joke. SM is overpowered and thats it.

Umaril
08-31-2009, 09:56 PM
Staff Mastery, grrrr...

Went to kill a warlock in war, she was on low HP I had about 1.5khp

I got hit by Sk, fair enough I lose 1k she gains 1k, I change to fast/25 bow, cast ambush and use Serpants, Arcania, and Etheral all before she gets up, annoyingly she had a bit of barrier left so this didnt quite kill her but came dam close, one more shot would do it... She springs up from feint and before I can land another hit boom 380 boom 406 Im dead before I can fire off another shot... (at this point I had swapped back to a med bow) i wouldent mind if I had been killed by lightning, meteor, any power at all, but point and kill Sm ... Grrr

The combo of Marks like damage and insane speed makes SM to uber, its fine just as a skill tree but throw in some damage/atk speed Items...

NGD once said conjus were not ment to be used as SM+Summon "warjus" in war, at Meni today Ignis has 4 zarks off conjus running about, and a few on warlocks stolen from our warju, sigh...

VandaMan
09-01-2009, 03:34 AM
NGD once said conjus were not ment to be used as SM+Summon "warjus" in war, at Meni today Ignis has 4 zarks off conjus running about, and a few on warlocks stolen from our warju, sigh...

Haha, you should probably tell your warju to DI his zarkit... but the reason you see so many warjus at menirah is because the people who arrive there first are the lvl 37-42ish grinders from the beach and near the save/tele area. Not really warjurers, just grinding conjurers. I apologize for pissing you off though, next time I'll run back inner realm and reset :harhar:

Umaril
09-01-2009, 11:48 AM
This warju dosnt beleive in DI, or Mental, Or any offence other than SM + Zark...

We have some real epic players around :razz:

VandaMan
09-01-2009, 03:37 PM
This warju dosnt beleive in DI, or Mental, Or any offence other than SM + Zark...

We have some real epic players around :razz:

You could try to teach him to dismiss his zarkit when it's been stolen then maybe? Hard to notice, but there's about 2 seconds after a successful steal summon where the conjurer can still dismiss it. (maybe that's a bug abuse though?) By the way, I love the warju you're talking about, every time we have a war with syrtis all our locks get free zarkits, and the dude is so single minded on killing support conjurers he suicides trying to kill them, and usually fails :drinks:

In my opinion the damage dealt by a warju using only SM and Zarkit is just too steady to be particularly useful... there's no big finishing hit, no surprize attack, and often no CC. Unless you're Beijing, you'd be much more usefull as a Mental warju even, if not support or partial support. But that's just me xD

DkySven
09-01-2009, 03:45 PM
In my opinion the damage dealt by a warju using only SM and Zarkit is just too steady to be particularly useful... there's no big finishing hit, no surprize attack, and often no CC. Unless you're Beijing, you'd be much more usefull as a Mental warju even, if not support or partial support. But that's just me xD

Like any other machine gun I think the best use of a SM mage is for suppression. Doing fast, huge damage at a few players to keep them from advancing into your own lines.

_dracus_
09-01-2009, 04:08 PM
A warju with SM+Zarkit+a little bit of mental hurts a lot!

Umaril
09-01-2009, 04:38 PM
SM is good for hording enemys, same as any long range high hit attacks, if theres someone on the outside of the group and you land big hit they are likely to move back towards the group to be protected by auras conjus etc,

Great way to pack a group before Sultars, if your organised enough to do it.

Inkster
09-01-2009, 04:44 PM
theres is only 1 overpowered class in this game

it is called surak :imstupid:

Umaril
09-01-2009, 04:57 PM
theres is only 1 overpowered class in this game

it is called surak :imstupid:

Correction, his name is lag, and we all his Bitch :)

Arafails
09-02-2009, 05:01 AM
Suppressing fire... now there's an idea.

Give mages the ability to just fire off in the direction they're facing without selecting a target....