Helping ease Conju's mana problems

[Lekarz]

Maybe something like Ambitious Sacrifice, but dealing constant damage on conjurer which gives you mana ? You sacrifice your health to get more mana, but have to take care about self hp. Great inside forts, outside it with knight next to you (auras) would also work.

Lets say, it takes 50 hp every 5 seconds and gives you 100 mana every "bit". It's like suicide

Regen self would be usefull again.

Spell activated like recharged arrows, ends when you have below 25% hp.

[ieti]

Regen Self is awesome spell to parry dots if you are pressed by marks, locks, hunters. Many conjus do not use it for dunno what reasons.

[_Enio_]

Saying conju have no mana problems is insane. We have problems and in intense battles half duration of AMB is spend waiting for it to cooldown. It is not so about mana management - if you try to conserve you are little better, but sooner or later you are on "ohshi no mana" state...

I have rather see a spell which can replace Mana Communion. When activated damage you take gives you mana in return. No damage soak in it - just mana in return to ease life of conju in heat of the battle. Higher you are pressed more regenerate you get. May be called "holy vengance" or something. Animation can be same as regenerate self but with blue crosses

One problem is that theres barely a difference on mana income between levels. The manareg from bigger manapool is minimal, so it is capped by mainly ambsac and draining mana.

Still, maybe a decreased cooldown for ambsac for conjurers could work for a quick fix, however - as bois pointed out - the whole system is kinda in a bad state, but a simple solution i dont see as its so complex and situational.

On another note: I think a link between mana income and activity, or rather efficiency is a reasonable idea.


On Db & Heroic: DB and Heroic seem to work wonders for me. Just make sure to have them active simultaneously as their effectivity goes up by a huge margin combined due to the def. calculation mechanics.

[Valkien]

I played a conj a bit, and now I'm starting one again. I never used him at war but I used him to help my friends grind. And you cannot say it is an easy job(it is easy compared to conj's at war) but i think, conjurer should have less cool down on spells. Life savior is a great spell. You have to cast it efficiently and only on one for every minute. I would lower its cool down or do it an area spell, lets say 4m.(Target get 50%, 1m away 40%,another meter 30%, etc.) It's just a suggestion I am making. Another thing is ress. Conjurer can ress someone every 2mins. And the last spell,where you can ress multiple enemies is rarely seen/used. Either lower cooldown of ress or make Multiple ress more useful(This could make Cremation useful).

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Originally Posted by Zordak

You are aware of the drastic change in xp and rp distribution you are proposing?

HUH? Show me where have I proposed anything cause I obviously missed something.

Noone complains about warriors or archers "spamming" normal attacks. Spamming something means to put it where it is neither needed nor wanted - and since conjurers cannot heal the unwounded this word is simply disrespectful of the work and wrong.

They can heal when I don't need it, when it is harmful, mostly to my lock. They can heal when it obviously has no point, cause healing is only think they can do. Yes I am disrespectful, I just see to many suckers playing conju, and DEMANDING gratefulness for their lousy support.

[...]
Z.

[_Kharbon_]

So... I play a lvl 40 noob conju for few weeks and from my feelings i have to say that this thread does have some backbone to it.

First. I don't feel that i can't outheal knocked and attacked ally, unless there are 2+barbs on him or he's a mage. Problems with mana do occur about same as on my lvl 60 lock, perhaps only little more. I have to admit though I am skilled and have the gear for high mana reserve on the conj.

Second, comparing the defence on my warlock and conjurer, unless there is a inteligent barb that somehow gets close to my conj and/or i get cc'd to death i would scarcely die.. (im using sanct, barier and steel skin only btw . So conj's defence id say is ok if your realm looks after you a bit (either another conjurer or few friends keeping an eye on you (btw, thank you!))

Lastly, the cd's of certain spells is somewhat strange. Heal ally, that is much more useful imho when a friend is running from fire, has a much lower cd than regenerate, which i consider useful to heal people when there's no immidiate dangeer. But anyway, the real problem is life savior.
Since this spell gives 50%hp with a relatively low cast time (arc dev active), but it has a terribly long cd, it is vital that it is used in good time, but it also gives better result with different classes. While with a mage it takes a barb one more hit to kill him even if i just cast life savior, on a knight it takes another minute of zerg bashing to get him dead because of the same spell.

[Pnarpa]

I have a 2500 mana pool and I have no issues with mana, unless I never pay any attention to my mana or I'm the only conjurer supporting an entire zerg. The first problem is my own fault and the second one... There shouldn't be 1 conjurer for an entire zerg.

[Zordak]

Originally Posted by Dupa_z_Zasady

HUH? Show me where have I proposed anything cause I obviously missed something.

Exaggerating somewhat: xp gain per spell is already low, you sounded like you wanted to promote the further reduction of what conjurers are able to cast within a certain time interval. And conjurers have no other means than castin spells to get a share - neglecting the normal hits, but try to get >5% damage needed for xp share *on an enemy* (10% on a monster).
Fairness would force adjustments in other places then.
Ofc. you did not say that, but thats the implication that i saw "down your road".

Originally Posted by Dupa_z_Zasady

They can heal when I don't need it, when it is harmful, mostly to my lock. They can heal when it obviously has no point, cause healing is only think they can do. Yes I am disrespectful, I just see to many suckers playing conju, and DEMANDING gratefulness for their lousy support.

Calling heal ally harmful because you waste your vampirism/soulkeeper is a bit much. It is hardly possible to tell how many people are attacking someone and you expect people to ask first whether you want to be healed? Sorry, but if you want that to work you have to tell people "dont heal me unless i ask you to" and enjoy your deaths. Or play exclusively with voice chat.
I am trying to figure out when healing someone has no point, but the only example i found was when someone is trying to suicide. An then it still has the point to annoy - which you possibly didnt see from your side...
When looking around me at a bridge or wherever it is that people regroup, I like to see everyone with full hpbars. Yes, I will heal minor stuff there. I do that all the time. You apparently consider that "spamming", but next time you escape a situation with 10hp just think what might have happened if you had not started full. It will only very rarely have such a result, but maybe you see the logic behind the general procedure.
Ultimately, this does not matter, because these situations are all without any mana stress. From none of them I can see how you deduced your objections to the proposals here.

My argument stays: On a full support setup, support skills should allow for getting the same ingame rewards as everyone else gets. And as there is no possible gameplay without mana for support conjurers, they should not run out of mana using *the essential* skills they have (which i consider to be heal ally, regen ally, dispell, devotion and energy barrier). This is already not the case as OP has stated in his proposal.

Z.

[Dupa_z_Zasady]

Originally Posted by Zordak

Exaggerating somewhat: xp gain per spell is already low, you sounded like you wanted to promote the further reduction of what conjurers are able to cast within a certain time interval. And conjurers have no other means than castin spells to get a share - neglecting the normal hits, but try to get >5% damage needed for xp share *on an enemy* (10% on a monster).
Fairness would force adjustments in other places then.

You don't have to tell me that XP share for conju sucks, I'm trying to get my conju to lvl 52 only from war. It is much harder than warlock.

Ofc. you did not say that, but thats the implication that i saw "down your road".

I'm not going to argue with your imaginations...

Calling heal ally harmful because you waste your vampirism/soulkeeper is a bit much. It is hardly possible to tell how many people are attacking someone and you expect people to ask first whether you want to be healed? Sorry, but if you want that to work you have to tell people "dont heal me unless i ask you to"

Doesn't work, tried many times. It only works when you tell something like "don't heal me you lousy sucker". Never works polite way, believe me, I always try this way first.

and enjoy your deaths.

Most of Ignis Horus healers are unable to save anybody's life, no matter how much mana they have. And I'm doing pretty well not relying on them.

Or play exclusively with voice chat.

I don't have to tell what to do to people that know to do, I don't even want to try to talk to others.

I am trying to figure out when healing someone has no point, but the only example i found was when someone is trying to suicide. An then it still has the point to annoy - which you possibly didnt see from your side...

You have disappointed me. First case I have already shown you, a lock with intentional HP deficit, but consider an ally being chased by enemy barb. Ally is low on HP, say 500, you heal him 500, and he gets hit 1100 normal, dies. You can try Life Savior, but damn, due to long casting time, you ally has already died. Now, you're casting Ivy on enemy barb or Will Domain or Beetles or, if you're close, Mind Push, then you cast Dispel on ally cause he is retreating, so he is probably loaded with DoTs, debuffs, and maybe dizzied, then you give him mana, to let him defend and cast buffs. you've saved your ally. Healing? Healing is far in the queue. Most often well placed dispel is more likely to save your ally than healing.

When looking around me at a bridge or wherever it is that people regroup, I like to see everyone with full hpbars.

I don't mind, everybody has his perversions.

Yes, I will heal minor stuff there. I do that all the time. You apparently consider that "spamming", but next time you escape a situation with 10hp just think what might have happened if you had not started full. It will only very rarely have such a result, but maybe you see the logic behind the general procedure.

Getting away with 10 HP is more matter of luck. I find this argument totally invalid.

Ultimately, this does not matter, because these situations are all without any mana stress. From none of them I can see how you deduced your objections to the proposals here.

Maybe you didn't understand me. I was talking about my objections to conjus mana recover proposal presented by Matt, and you have found my arguments as a will to decrease conjus XP share.

My argument stays: On a full support setup, support skills should allow for getting the same ingame rewards as everyone else gets. And as there is no possible gameplay without mana for support conjurers, they should not run out of mana using *the essential* skills they have (which i consider to be heal ally, regen ally, dispell, devotion and energy barrier). This is already not the case as OP has stated in his proposal.

Z.

In my opinion you want to cure one disease with the other. Increasing Conjurer's mana regeneration ability will only promote mindless spell spamming instead of wise gameplay and mana managing. As I agree that XP sharing sucks for conjus, my opinion is, that formula calculating shared XP should be changed in favour of conjurers. Tricks with mana regeneration, lowering CD, or GCD won't work in long term. I could also argue on what you're understanding by full support conju. You describe Energy barrier as essential skill. I don't use Energy Barrier as I consider useless spell that most of barbarians can break with one hit. I put those 5 points in lvl 1 mentals as they more versatile helping you defend yourself, defend your allies and stop enemy with low HP trying to get away. Heal Ally is useful, but again in these days of huge damage dealt by barbarians not so essential. Dispel and Devotion are also warlock spells, so, do you want those two to increase warlock's mana regeneration too? Don't think so.

[Torcida]

If conju's will become stronger in healing then warju should be nerfed, They beat the crap out of us locks and the defensive class shouldn't be able to absolutely destroy a warlock.