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Old 07-04-2009, 08:51 PM   #51
Vaylos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilko View Post
- Hunter never meant assassins, they are not meant to hunt other players. They are called hunters because they have special tracking skills and can hunt and tame creatures.
Okay, fair enough. if this was your original idea or concept for hunter that's fine. But...then why did you give us such a long camo time? Stealthers or Camo-ers are traditionally known to be player-hunters and/or assassin types. And to be honest, I kinda feel like the entire class infrastructure and original concepts are being changed mid-game. Kinda like someone deciding to change the rules of hide and seek once the next person is "it"

I don't know, but if these fundamental concepts are being reworked, then maybe you should just consider biting the bullet, wiping the entire list of skills and class structures, and then rebuild them from scratch. Put it on a back-burner if you need to, and work on the rebuild as time permits, but honestly something of this fundamental core mechanic needs to be done right from the get-go. If every class has a specific concept or idea behind them, be it the developer concept or the player concept, then the skills and abilities need to reflect that. The question is, which is right?

As for pets and shortbow skills. Honestly, I can't say much as my hunter is a mere level 37, and hasn't had much RvR experience yet. What I will say though, is to be useful to my team mates, I play as a supporting role, NOT as a damage-dealer. I cannot do much damage at my level, so I aim for having good range and good support skills to try to debuff and hinder our enemies. So, I try to focus on longbow, tricks, scouting, and not so much on evasion. I die pretty quick, but sometimes I'm able to chase marksmen off of walls Sometimes the tactics work really well, and other times I go down faster than a...er...well I'll leave that to imagination. Camo can be useful in an open-field fight for sneaking into enemy lines and causing confusion and discord. But for the most part it does not aid in tracking so much. It aids on ambushing and hunting other players. About the only thing I use shortbow and pets these days is grinding. Sure, it kinda makes me look like a "wannabe marks" (heh, last night I had someone ask me if I was using Recharged Arrows) But I like having the range. It's just my playing style. I'm sure I'll change again once I get up into the 40's and eventually lvl50.

Anyway, I believe it was said that camo was changed to be "offensive" at that one update that allowed camo 5 to last 90 seconds. Does that not imply that we are meant to "hunt players?" Or to ambush and use hit and run tactics? If that is not the case then why was camo changed? I surely cannot see it as aiding in tracking when it is easier to use wild spirit and mobility to cover a lot of ground quickly to gain info on enemy positions then run back to your group or fort after doing recon.

When I pick a class to play, it is not to level quickly, or to be a statistic. I choose a class because I have played similar roles in the past on other games, or because I like the abilities of the class and the potential for their use in RvR. I chose warlock because I like the thought of being a walking artillery piece. I chose barb because it was the closest to one of my own character concepts, being that they follow the concept damage being their best defense. And I chose hunter because it was the closest thing to a stealther in this game.

Anyway, I am glad to hear that you will be discussing things more in depth from here on out, and that you will spend more time considering changes to skills and concepts. Whatever happens I'm sure you'll get things straightened out, and come up with a final map or plan for what classes are meant to do, and what they are meant not to do.

Best of luck!
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Old 07-04-2009, 09:10 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilko View Post
as an example, sanctuary can be greatly enhanced by insight... so if you want to use sanctuary in ways as you where using it before, you may just use insight (trading off for another spell maybe?)
For now sanctuary is 30 sec. I see in the update 20 sec will be the new duration. If with insight I can reach 30 sec of duration (as you seem to say) the changelog has missed the modification on insight who can raise the duration of 50% (15% for now and it only make 3 sec more... still 7 missing)
Or you take a bad exemple.

Well about conjurer I'm agree that they should be a support for other ("Conjurers should be an assist class, not for self defense but for their teammates, we have seen conjurers “tanking” into the middle of the battle or just escaping after being found.") but as long as warrior/knight can run trough other player and rush on conjurer they have to self defense.
I can see the difference between me 49 with my levelling setup and the other conju level 50, when some barb rush on them they only stay alive because of sanctuary (and other sanctuary spell). When the barb hit me, 3-4 hit and my 2700 hp reach 0.
Also think to the conjurer who have to level... esay if he plays when people are connected. Alone and if he only can support other he can't level (on morning for europe, there are nobody leveling at imperia beach... Easy for suporting other...)
If a line of knights (for exemple on a bridge, ...) could stop a rushing barbare well we can only support other player and no more self-defense.

Last thing:
I love this game.
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:56 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chilko
(we still don’t know how to improve leveling for knights without making it super powerful)
The problem with grinding knights can be divided into 2 subproblems:
1. Knights deal little damage.
2. Mobs evade too much.

The first one is partially solved with taunt, but (as KnuckOne said a few posts before) it has too long cooldown time. With my knight (lvl31 currently), I can kill a normal mob in about 15s (using taunt and charge). Taunt cooldown is 20s. Through that 5s I can stand and wait when taunt cooldown will end (wasting the time for my other buffs) or attack another mob without taunt, which means less damage per normal hit, longer killing time (20-25s). Lowering taunt's cooldown to 15s or even to 10s would make knights life a lot easier and let them get some satisfaction from grinding.

The other thing are mob's evasions and resists. This is common that mobs can evade 3-4 hits in a row or 5-6 hits in total before he got killed (I'm using medium speed sword). This makes killing such a mob much longer - I can say - about 1 minute. This is the whole duration time caution !!!!

The problem here lies in hit chance. I can estimate the real chance to hit a normal mob (as for my knight - all normal items, sword with +14 hit chance) is about 70-75% . If knights can't deal so much damage to compensate the evade rate of mobs, why not give them more hit chance? Beside, shouldn't knights be the 'masters of hit chance' - low damage hits makers but maximally precise ? This would be the contrary for barbarians (very high damage, but may sometimes miss - as it is now). In my opinion, the real chance to hit for knights should be something like 85-90% against a normal mob (items doesn't give much hit chance). This shall solve the problem of slow grinding of knights or at least much help knights levelling.

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Old 07-05-2009, 07:59 AM   #54
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I like your suggestion about hit chance for knights. Maybe spells like awareness could be turned into hitchance buffs?
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:26 AM   #55
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The hit-chance buffs should be substantially large though to be effective in the current system.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:36 AM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e30ernest View Post
The hit-chance buffs should be substantially large though to be effective in the current system.
Yes. Also, then knights might be good anti-knights and armies will find them useful to neutralize the annoying tanks of the enemy.
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:41 AM   #57
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What about adding a "class bonus exp" for the ones that need an increment in numbers, just like the realm bonus works ?
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Old 07-05-2009, 08:44 AM   #58
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One thing is also coming to my mind. The fact that mobs evade so many hits in a row may be due to what random numbers of checking hits system really gets. Following this, it may be the random numbers generator which possibly needs a revision.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skip86
What about adding a "class bonus exp" for the ones that need an increment in numbers, just like the realm bonus works ?
chilko said that they think about this method.


I must add that taunt's casting time is a bit too long. I'd suggest lowering it to 0.5s.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:39 AM   #59
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Thanks Chilko for your post. I found it very useful, as I believe many of others did. It helps a lot, and saves my time, than sitting and waiting every update for something good.

I hope you ll gather enough money (more than your current EU payment scamming brings) with this roadmap, to improve this wonderful game and make your visions become true. After all, its important that devs are enjoying in their product, not its consumers, aka clients.

Have a nice day.
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Old 07-06-2009, 08:00 AM   #60
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If you want to make mages a rarer class WITHOUT nerfing them, make there spells component based.
There are enough drops of 'stuff' within the game that can be used as spell components. Not to mention it might give the game an extra dimension in the area of economy.
Another advantage of this is that it makes white tagged mobs useful again. If a mage runs out of the items he needs and cant farm higher level creatures, the white tags are still useful.

As for Knights and Barbs, just make their armor worth something so they don't spend so much time on their knees healing. Part of the pain in the ass with these classes is that you spend more time resting than fighting. Oh, and at least halve the repair costs on equipment and weapons.
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