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Old 03-21-2011, 03:26 PM   #51
Vroek
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Originally Posted by lala110593 View Post
slows are considered a cc too

-glulose
Yeah but i dont consider LP, sotw and retaliation as CCs.
Yet they will do job of out lasting UM, with as i feel a very good success rate.
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Old 03-21-2011, 04:23 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Gallus View Post
So you jump to the same conclusion as me. Marks have only one CC to prevent being killed by a barb with UM, lightning arrow, Barbs have more than 1 CC to prevent a mark from casting lot of CCs on him, in the end barbs are less lucky dependet than marks.
Never said that. Even if the barbarian manages to anyhow cast a spell on a marks he wont get a second chance, um rarely is on after running towards the enemy and casting the first spell. So if this feint or whatever fails, the barb dies. But in most situations he wont be able to cast any cc of course, a single cc is enough for a marksmen to stay out of the barbarians range forever dealing constantly dmg. Of course they have a lot more than one cc and some other tools such as retaliation, sotw, lp, escaptist and acrobatic, a marksmen losing against a barbarian in open field has to be very bad (or just dont likes running).
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Old 03-21-2011, 05:29 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by Vroek View Post
Yeah but i dont consider LP, sotw and retaliation as CCs.
Yet they will do job of out lasting UM, with as i feel a very good success rate.
Nice theory, it just doesnt work out on field as sow is quite broken and with lp your speed is 100% leaving you free for being kicked with no acro on.

When ambushed by a barb best bet is to hope for sow to hold 2 spells, cast caltrops and run.
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:08 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by _Enio_ View Post
Nice theory, it just doesnt work out on field as sow is quite broken and with lp your speed is 100% leaving you free for being kicked with no acro on.

When ambushed by a barb best bet is to hope for sow to hold 2 spells, cast caltrops and run.
I just use spell on sotw if they used retaliation or maybe by accident sometimes, id say it quite rare or at least on par with UM failure which pretty much also i only do by accident.
But on your recommendation I will do more deliberate spells on sotw for awhile, but I doubt I get much more success because of it.

Regardless i think sotw would help, most barbs would act like me and try to not waste spells and mana in vain and use what works normals.
LP is also not that bad, if you know he already used spring, then it will be WS vs Deafening roar and you have the advantage of knowing when LP ends, Id put my money on WS.
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Old 03-21-2011, 09:55 PM   #55
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Generally, 1v1 discussion is quite missing the point. spring vs mobility.. 1v1 is secondary, primary is in synergetic group environment.

Sure theres 1v1 parts in RvR, but the main thing, the synergies, have to be taken into account. (2/6 classes and 50A% of spells need to be removed otherwise)

Eg. While marks is atm so praised for 1v1 power (he always was strong there) he has no really much to give for his groups (lightning arrow..).

It really makes no sense to leave all that out.

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Old 03-22-2011, 05:35 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by lala110593 View Post
IMO the marksman class is just wrong, a marksman is not supposed to be fast or defensive, a marksman has to hit high dmg from high range and thats it. NGD, however, has given marks the power to be so much more, and that is what is making them OP.

-glulose
You missing one point Marks don't make anymore hight dmg...untill he has dragon amulet and insane items...150-200 dmg on a warrior,many times under 80 dmg on knights or ~80 dmg on lvl 60 marks it's OP indeed.True i can deal around 200-350 dmg on mages with slow bow.SO if you compare dmg with knight one..lets say is fine...but if you caompare with barbarian ...because he has spring ...awww 1800 crits ,1200 normals one kick 4 is enaught to die,~2-4 hits is enaught to die.
If you watch only in your realm,yes indeed Ignis has lots of marxs with insane items,cose NGD from begin of this game love Ignis.
The only way that fight a marx now is just more with ambush,ethereal,serpent..cose he dose not deal anymore any dmg...i had this days lots of pvp at hunt...the only good way to fight warriors was cc and spells,normal hits are just useless moust of time.
But this kind of fight take long and who resist more win.Is kinda luck based for a marx.Usual a fight look like UM+Spring..not a cc works....marxs cast sotw,sotw fail moust of time,and he die.
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Old 03-22-2011, 08:24 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by _Enio_ View Post
Generally, 1v1 discussion is quite missing the point. spring vs mobility.. 1v1 is secondary, primary is in synergetic group environment.
The RvR argument can be a quite solid cover for bad balance, but you cant sweep 1v1 balance under the rug.
RvR can mean anything, any combination of classes, a zerg of archers, a zerg of warriors, 20 vs 40 etc, its an abstract definition of game play, while 1v1 is not.

You can say a balanced group should always have an advantage over an unbalanced group, i dont believe this is the case, nor is it achievable while maintaining a fun game during all hours of the day and in all different scenarios a good RvR game should have.

1v1 balance is easier to pursue and would as i see also result in better balance in general.

Last edited by Vroek; 03-22-2011 at 09:03 AM.
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Old 03-22-2011, 10:19 AM   #58
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Originally Posted by doppelapfel View Post
Never said that. Even if the barbarian manages to anyhow cast a spell on a marks he wont get a second chance, um rarely is on after running towards the enemy and casting the first spell. So if this feint or whatever fails, the barb dies.
Ahahah barb don't need a second chance cose 2-4 hits and archer is done
And archer has a second chance under kick/fient 5? :P
That why told discusion is in wrong direction,each person will see from he's point of he's main char the probleme and will not be fair ...
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:25 AM   #59
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Originally Posted by HidraA View Post
If you speack from Warrior point of view ofc it's fine 2x25% /minut vs 1 x10%/minut it's "damn fine".
I play my marksman as well. I dont use mobility on him at all but can keep distance vs one player just fine thanks to the ass load of CC spells marks can have.

If Archers and Barbs had the same running speed, and archers also have a large gap between both players at the fights start, and a load of CC, how do you expect the warrior to ever catch up?

We'd go back to the days when hunters could just run-turn-shoot forever-run without even needing CC, and there'd be nothing you can do about it.
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Old 03-22-2011, 11:44 AM   #60
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Originally Posted by Umaril View Post
We'd go back to the days when hunters could just run-turn-shoot forever-run without even needing CC, and there'd be nothing you can do about it.
Indeed 10% of speed = 25% speed..from your point of view...and you forgot how much passive speed had hunters before and how much was mobility..using cc and you keep a barb away...you just lie...

Had over 100 pvp-s in last 3 days hunting...and this is damn fragile 5 m are lethal for marx,if your eye dose not apreciate corect distance your are fuked.

You know whats diference between barb and marx?...Barb dose no need to stop load he's spear and hit..he will hit you from run....any object near you will help a warrior cose you are not able to attack..so if you stop and cast or hit you risk to be knocked that is lethal for archer.

So each stop from run from a warrior imply a huger risck,if he is under um or resist at any of your CC your are fuked.


When you dont play as main char another class,just sometimes and say.."is fine"..is just wrong...
I played over 1,5 years as barb and got bored also telling "damn marxs are OP and i will play marx",after changed to marx and played over 1 year.After you play long time a class you will be able too see he's main problems.
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