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Old 03-24-2011, 05:47 PM   #1
tarashunter
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Default Review of hunter class

Hello.
By the way hunter,do low damage with bow,i was thinking how to balance that,during fights,on forts battles.
Really often i hit my enemy,i do 50 dmg only,and i make hit my pet too,but i take no realm point.
I feel useless with that class in forts war.
If i go out to defend,enemy immediatly defeat me,even if i'm buffed.
I cannot stay on wall,cause i do no damage,and enemy marksman are able to kill me easly on wall,considering i cannot count on a spell like strategic position that give me -30% ranged dmg.
Hunter got 2 main powers,scout,and pet.
Scout is fine,but the pet tree looks a bit obsolete considering all the change have been done to the balance.
I was minding about some change on Pet tree.
Hunter to tame a pet must choice on 3 different kind of tame:
-insect
-beast
-monster
Would be nice,have only 1 kind of tame that allow you to take the pet you want,monster,beast,insect,all with a single tame power.
Why that?
To add 2 spell on pet tree.
I was minding at 2 spell,1 for area attack,and another 1 for area defence.
Both usable with pet only.
Let's make an example:

-Area defence:allow the pet cast an area that effect 10 meters from pet,and allow your ally to recive -30% phisical damage,or allow your ally to be immune from CCs,or any other defence that culd be put on ally(see knight's powers for example).

-Area attack:Allow the pet cast an offensive area range 10 that stun or make a certain ammount of damage,or make enemy lose a certain ammount of hit chance and attack speed at the same time,or make the enemy dizzy,or any other idea you have for an attack area.

Why do that?
-Hunter in fort war as i just told is pretty useless,no scout needed,and is not a damage dealer that can change the sort of battles.
The Stalker sorroundings,is not able to work properly,by the way it don't allow ally under camo to buff themself,to make the proper attack.
And even if stalker allow the buff of your ally,it have a cooldown too long.

-Play hunter don't give enough satisfaction...you don't know what is your gamerole exatly...yes you can track,but after that and the invisibility power,the hunter have nothing more.

-The pet get killed too much easly,and skin of the beast that gives +90% dmg resist require too much mana for 30 seconds,and have the redicolous 180s cooldown.
Even UM and army of one have lower cd.

-pet under bestial warth 5 do 80 dmg on an buffed enemy.
Combine sudden strike and death sentece make the pet hit hit around 230 dmg on a buffed enemy,but in fort war is impossible to cast both on an enemy first that your pet die reaching the target.

Well guys that was an idea.
I know not all of you will like that,but if you give your help to make hunter useful on fort war,giving your 2 cents on that tread i will be happy.

And i hope "someone" will assume that hunter class need a better gameplay role.
Ty for the attenction.
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Old 03-24-2011, 09:34 PM   #2
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Hunters are completely broken, that's true. They serve no purpose - camo is nice to avoid fights but not that often used to attack. (I'm talking about fort wars...)
And the other hunter-only "special ability": Pets. Well you've said everything about them.
What's left? A marksman with less range, less damage and the ability to serve as a tracking/stalker slave. \o/

I don't think you can solve this problem with some simple new spells, (and by the way I really dislike your ideas, both are new easy-to-cast areas, we've got enough of that stuff) something way more basic is missing here: The difference between hunters and marksmen. The balance vision is missing. Pets do NOT define hunters as you can go petless and even should be able to. Now, is there anything else?

Where's the difference supposed to be? Any ideas?
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:57 AM   #3
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Completely agree that hunters need to be reworked.

Rather, Scouting and Pets need a total revamp.

If hunters are supposed to be the support class, we really need some support skills that stand out. Tricks is also shared by marks, and we hardly have any support skills in scouting. Death Sentence is mediocre at best, stalker is hit/miss and doesn't always work as you want, camo corpse is worthless, cold blood is offensive, ensnaring is (arguably) offensive, tracking isn't really a support skill, and worthless in RvR fort battles, Camo is offensive, not really supportive.

--EDIT:-- Found the thread I was talking about: Immune started it. http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=72455

Someone else had some really nice ideas in another thread to revamp the pet tree with some nice supporting skills via pet. using pet to absorb some damage from an attack, using it to shield an ally temporarily, etc.

Scouting also needs work as there aren't any real supportive skills in that class. Everything else a hunter uses (tricks) is not unique to the hunter. Marks can use tricks if they want as well. Or Hinder/other skills in shortbow (though granted shortbow marks are fairly uncommon) Aside from tricks, hunters have no unique support skills they can call their own. Scouting should hold most of our support abilities, just as Marks have a tree that contains their own unique support skills.

I had some ideas for some skills, but I don't know good mana amounts or casting times, or good values to set for levels 1 thru 5. But here are the thoughts nonetheless: Most of these are small area skills that would see a more tactical use.

------------------------------------------
NOTE: The following skill values are arbitrary, but should be in the ballpark. I'm not a balance guru, so I'll let someone else figure out what values would be more balanced.
------------------------------------------

Entangling Net: Area 3 (maybe max area 5 or 6 on lvl 5) Enemies caught in the area are immobilized temporarily (I was thinking same durations as ambush, or maybe more lenient) Casting time could be 2.0s Range maybe 25. If an enemy does not get entangled by the net, they have a temporary speed malus (-10% speed) for 4s

Also, maybe lvl 1 could catch 2 or 3 enemies, and lvl 5 could catch 6)
-------------------------------------------
Flash Arrow: Area 3: Effect: Enemy is stunned/dazzled by the light from the flash. (Effect: Dizzy, same durations as ambush) Cast time: 2.5s Range 20

Alternatively it could be a stun effect instead of dizzy (but we already have distracting shot, so I dunno)
--------------------------------------------

Tripping Arrows: (needs a better name) Arrows fly out and spread balls/pellets on the ground. This creates a temporary "difficult" terrain where enemies moving at full speed have a chance to trip while in the area. Effect lasts 10s, and resistances are checked every 2.5s. Duration of trip is 2s. Walking through the area negates the effect and players will not trip if walking. Cast time 3.0s

Or make it a "Grease arrow" or something to apply a "hazardous" terrain condition.

Should be shorter range, so maybe range 15 (you're targeting a spot of terrain, not an enemy player)

I know the above would be "too complex" but maybe NGD could create a terrain layer/texture to place in the area that is mappable, and while players are in that area, the checks are run.
-----------------------------------------------

Frozen Arrow: range 25, duration 4s to 8s, target is numbed by cold and cannot respond as quickly. Casting speed lowered 10% to 20% (we already have an attack speed malus: sticky touch. I think cast speed malus would be more interesting, and more tactical)
-----------------------------------------------

Thought of another one:
Smoke Cloud: Aura: Area 3: Duration: 15s Hunter creates a cloud of dust and smoke around himself, obscuring him and his allies. However, attack speed is lowered as the hunter must take time to drop smoke/powder balls. Effect: Hunter attack speed lowered 10%, Allies gain some defense against ranged attacks. (Ranged normal attacks have a chance to miss, and ranged skills have a higher chance of being resisted.......no idea what good values for these would be though)

I'll post more ideas if/when I manage to think of something that would fit the hunter/trickster/CC support type role.

Last edited by Vaylos; 03-25-2011 at 06:25 AM.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:30 AM   #4
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I think that most hunters have not checked what possibilities they have now, at lv 60, with 4 maxed trees.
Ennemy surveillance is still the most useful skill in the WZ, and ensnaring arrow one of the best attack spells.

Now, a hunter can use some awesome combinations like :
Camo, then caltrop(5) a group - sotw (2-3) - cold blood(5) - rep shot(5)
2 hunters with this combo kill a group in 5-10 seconds.

just forget your pet.
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Old 03-25-2011, 08:57 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lunedor View Post
I think that most hunters have not checked what possibilities they have now, at lv 60, with 4 maxed trees.
Ennemy surveillance is still the most useful skill in the WZ, and ensnaring arrow one of the best attack spells.

Now, a hunter can use some awesome combinations like :
Camo, then caltrop(5) a group - sotw (2-3) - cold blood(5) - rep shot(5)
2 hunters with this combo kill a group in 5-10 seconds.

just forget your pet.
This is right; most Hunters just don't understand how to play after the nerfs. I meet alot of Hunters every day in war, and the large majority of them are simply easy to kill. Then there are some who are absolute hell to kill. I met one who used Cold blood with Projectile rain, dealing 700-1k damage to everyone in an area of 10 at a fort war. It is still very possible to do alot of damage on Hunter, and still survive long and many other former aspects of the class; its just that most refuse to adapt to the new system. They want to cast a single buff (Dirty fighting) and do 800 damage Ensnaring arrows like it was before the nerf, and that's just not fair to other classes given their huge arsenal of tricks. My hope is that one day, more Hunters understand just how truely valueable their tactics are in fights, and stop thinking they are useless or underpowered. The level 59 troll is very similar to the old ones too.

(Just to note, my main was a Hunter for nearly 3 years, and I have still played her quite alot after the nerf with large success, and i would very gladly continue to do so if she was in the same server and realm as I play now, Marksman isn't everything like people think.)
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Old 03-25-2011, 10:41 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vaylos View Post
--EDIT:-- Found the thread I was talking about: Immune started it. http://www.regnumonline.com.ar/forum...ad.php?t=72455
Immune opened a great post,i haven't look for it.
Sorry immune if i replace your idea.
Anyway he described some great ideas.Totaly agree with immune ideas.
Ty for the link.


Quote:
Originally Posted by lunedor View Post
.....
Well lune,i play hunter by long time,i know how powerful enarsing is,and i'm agree.
Camo/caltrop sotw/repshot.
Try do that in fort wars.
1-that combo you described require too much mana.

2-sotw is a fail spell,after i cast it enemy is able to cast on me CC's,and if he don't cast CCs,barbs and marksman are able to kill me in few hits.

3-To use the combo you described,i must go out of camo in the middle of enemy zerg,that repor you to the point n.2 up here.Caltrop and repetition(that have cast time of....3 seconds -.-) costs around 500 mana each(that report you to point 1 up here).
Is a great offensive combo anyway if sotw works properly,or if escaipist works too,but both spell 7/10 time fail,and not all hunter have the gear i have that allow me to have all the mana to cast this spell together.
I tried that setup anyway,and is a fail,rep.shot with cooldblood do around 200 dmg on enemy zerg,i dont take rps after i used that combo...strange?try it you will see^^.
Enemy survelliance don't give me rps,is extremly useful,but don't give rps!
Is not an area...and after i track i must say to my realmmate the enemy position...i lose 3/4 sec only to write the track 4 4 5 ne 150 !

-Would be nice if the track give rps on the tracked enemy,and would be nice if track automatically appear on the top of allies in 10 m from the hunter.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kitsunie View Post
...
I don't refuse to adapt to the new sistem.
I don't think i'm one of the hunter so easy to kill then.
I easly easly kill warrior,mages and other hunter on 1 vs 1,rare exeption for really skilled players.
My only problems are marksman,but i don't pretend to be god.So is fine even if marksman OPness must be rebalanced,and i'm not the only one who say that.
Now,as i told to lune,i tested all possible setup...you must belive me....i tried all the setup!
Cooldblood + proiectile rain in fort war don't deal 700/1k dmg....lol....would be extremly nice....as repetition shot+cooldblood it deal only around 200 dmg...try it to belive.
I think anyother hunter can confirm that.
You told you have an hunter...try to cst the combo lune said,or the combo you said in a fort war...then repeat me the dmg you deal.
Is full of support area,so is impossible do 700/1k dmg.

Kitsu and lune,after that,rethink at the set you must use to use the area you told.
If i put on that set,i must renunce to 2/3 tricks....and you both have hunter,so you both can understand what that mean.
Hunter without tricks=dead hunter.
I play with long bow set,one of my most powerful skill,is breack apart,without it i'm not able to deal enough dmg.
The War troll lvl 58,is not so powerful as you think...i tested it on several enemys,as i just wrot on buffed enemy pet do around 80 dmg.
To use it properly you must combine sudden strike+dead sentence+bestial warth+skin of the beast.
Check the cost of the mana of all that spell together,check the cast time of all that spell.Try to cast all that spell in 1 vs 1 against a barb/marksman/lock,and tell me if you are able to do it in time,first that they kill your pet,dizzy you,kill you.
After done that,if you are able to do,you must cast defence buff on yourself.Keep it in mind,hunter is not invincible as you think.
As said up there,is impossible have enough point to use the pet set+area set as just described.Or pet tree+scout+tricks+evasive or scout+ long/short bow areas + trikcs(caltrop) + evasive.
Ah guys...on 6 lvl 50 i chosed to lvl my hunter to lvl 60 only....
Have you done the same choice?...if not....why?...what char are you playng now instead of your hunter?
Ok kitsu have hunter on another server...but i doubt having it on horus,would take it to lvl 60.Other ppl have more than 1 char 50 and an hunter 50,no one levelled his hunter.All the hunter 60 you see around,got only hunter as char 50,that now is 60.i Know about 2 exeption,in syrtis of ppl that levelled an hunter even if he have other lvl 50 class.(don't know how to write the concept in english,sorry for my low lvl english knowledge).

Guys was only to speak,not to offend you that must be clear,i really appreciate your reply,cause they make me/other reader think anyway.
But may be you miss what i'm try to say here.
Hunter have no way to take rps in war,and is pretty useless because (remind my first post) + we have not area to defend allied,or offencive area that are really useful.
With all the areas there are now,if i use cooldblood+rep shot or proiectile rain,i don't take rps!
If someone charge my allied i have no skill to defend my allied if caltrop is in cd,i can only go camo or run away!
In that case a conju or a knoght(other 2 support classes) have 5 differt areas to support allyes if enemy charge!!! ^^
Hunter only 1....caltrop......
So is not a support class,not an offencive class,the only help hunter can give to his ally is the track,that don't give rps.
I have not screen shotor video....but belive me....in 4 days of war with enemy zerg...with a magna long bow+cooldblood i can deal 40 dmg to my enemy....do you understand? 40 dmg???
Enemy zerg is ever under shield wall of 4 different knights well coordinated.
If they are not under shield wall...i deal with my magna bow around 70 dmg....guys i use a manga bow!!!!One of the most powerfull items in game lol!!!
I'm not a dmg dealer...well at least give me some support area that allow me to take rps,and allow me to complete daily quest when i finght with my zerg...cause i hit my enemy 4/5 time with spell to but i don't take rps when they die.
Rps is not the pint that give you fun,i'm agree,i don't play for rps,i play for fun.
But rps tell you how much influece you have on RvR...if we kill all the enmy zerg,and on 15 enemy defeated i take only 9 rps if i work relly hard,that mean there is something wrong...barbarian,locks,marksman,are able to cast areas that buff/defend theyr ally even if they are offensive calls...think to onsl+(i don't remember the other barb buff that give +15% dmg);think to the lock mana comunion/(an the other area that i don't remember is the last of the tree of mana comunion);think at the marksman that are able to cast lighning arrow+several other areas with a not sacrified setup...all helpful in war....conju and knight are full support,so have many others area...but the hunter??what can do??? cast stalker sorroundings that no one can use while an enemy zerg is charging??Under stalker you cannot buff too...is an useles skil in fort/openfield war,you can really rarely use it..

I replace my thanks for your reply guys,every opinion is an help you know,no matter if we are not agree.

Last edited by tarashunter; 03-25-2011 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:05 AM   #7
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I do okay as a hunter; however, the original poster is correct, hunters need a bit of a re-work. The class itself isn't really clearly defined and does not fall into support or defence class with the current "speciality" skill available to us.

Someone said something about casting rep shot, I've tried this and sadly it does not work very well simply because:

1. Come out of camo
2. Cast cold blood (6 sec duration)
3. Cast rep shot (3 sec)

By the time you'd case repshot your cold blood COULD wear off because you've had to adjust for the repshot or your easily seen and CC'd to death.

In reality one great fix for hunters would simply be to allow them to cast buffs in camo.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:15 AM   #8
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when it comes to unique supporting skills the hunter isnt too bad set. Theres camo, stalker that can be used for intel/tactics, reveal cs counter and ensnare. Cold blood is a nice burst damage, more than any marks can pull out.

However theres other issues such as limited options in fight, very low sustained damage without pet and in war pets generally have low impact.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:25 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Compost View Post
In reality one great fix for hunters would simply be to allow them to cast buffs in camo.
While it probably would be alot of fun it could easily break them aswell. Maybe limit it to CB, with current not showing animations when cast out of sight this fix could take a while to be implemented..
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Old 03-25-2011, 03:14 PM   #10
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The mainreason for NGD to nerf hunters were a few opspells/spellcombination.
The best/worst one was confuse from camo making the enemy unable to use buffs for about 30s. Instead of nerfing it NGD nerfed everything else hunters had (camo, pets, dmg), hunters are less op now but also a lot less fun. they should have kept at least a higher dmg and nerfed confuse instead, would have probably been enough to balance them and a lot more fun for them. Now they are forced to use the lame camo-confuse tactic to have any chance.

Nerf their optools as confuse, cold blood and camo and improve other things as the dmg and pets instead. I dont have a hunter but i wouldnt want to come from camo with confuse each 120s to kill someone more or less easy and be useless the remaining time. Better give up some imbalanced stuff and get a general improvement to dmg and pets, should be a lot more fun then.
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